Impeachment showdown: White House declares war on Democrats’ inquiry


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This is a rush transcript from “The Five,” October 9, 2019. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

JESSE WATTERS, CO-HOST: Hello, everybody. I’m Jesse Watters along with Jedediah Bila, Juan Williams, Dana Perino, and Greg. It’s 5 o’clock in New York City, and this is “The Five.”

It’s an all-out war over impeachment, the White House telling Democrats to take a hike because they’re not gonna comply with their rigs inquiry. And President Trump is calling out the Democrats tactics and the whistleblower.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: They have eviscerated the rules. They have a man name Schiff where I had a perfect phone call with the president of Ukraine, like — I mean perfect, and people read it, but they don’t read that, they heard Schiff’s version of it. He defrauded the American public. The whistleblower is a Democrat, strong Democrat, and is working with one of my opponents as a Democrat that I might end up running against. The whole thing is a scam. It’s a fix.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WATTERS: This comes as Joe Biden, for the first time, backing impeachment.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, FORMER U.S. VICE PRESIDENT: He’s already convicted himself. In full view of the world and the American people, Donald Trump has violated his oath of office, betrayed this nation, and committed impeachable acts.

To preserve our constitution, our democracy, our basic integrity, he should be impeached.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WATTERS: Biden’s words setting off a twitter battle with the president, and Donald Trump responding this way. So pathetic to see sleepy Joe Biden who, with his son Hunter, and to the detriment of the American taxpayer has ripped off at least two countries for millions of dollars calling for my impeachment, and I did nothing wrong. Joe’s failing campaign gave him no other choice. And Joe Biden hitting back, thanks for watching. Stop stonewalling the Congress. Honor your oath. Respect the constitution.

And speaking of taxpayers, I’ve released 21 years of my tax returns, you?

All right, so a lot of stuff happening today. Juan, before we get to this whole deal with this impeachment, lot of breaking news on the coup front and on the Ukraine front, like for you to maybe address some of these. New documents show that Hunter Biden was not just paid $50,000 a month, records show it was $166,000 a month.

DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: A month?

WATTERS: $166,000 a month. Wow, it’s a lot of money. Also, the United States knew that Ukraine was reopening up an investigation into Biden’s in February, so that destroys the quid pro quo. Also, not only that the whistleblower, is a Democrat, and he works with someone running against President Trump, also a Democrat. He used to work for James Clapper. Care to respond to any of those things.

JUAN WILLIAMS, CO-HOST: So, in other words the president was pressuring the president of Ukraine even though the Ukraine had already started an investigation? Jesse, it makes no sense, but I’m glad —

WATTERS: Yeah, you’re right. I agree.

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: What’s the president doing?

WATTERS: Yeah, where’s the quid? Where’s the pro?

WILLIAMS: The president didn’t know what he was doing and that’s why — no, look, I think the first thing to address is this letter that came out yesterday and the continual stonewalling by the president and the White House. This is dangerous. This is a constitutional crisis. He’s trying to break the system of our government. Congress has the right to impeach and inquire as to whether impeach a president, and he’s just saying I’m not cooperating. I’m not going along.

Then he attacks the whistleblower. The whistleblower is a Democrat.

Everything the whistleblower has said so far has been corroborated. And guess who corroborated it? Donald Trump. And, you know, Trump, right now, is spending — I think this week he’s already spent $700,000 on ads. He said, well, immigration stirred up the base, I’m going to stir up the base now with talk of impeachment.

But, you know, what strikes me is Mitch McConnell is playing along. Oh, this is a coup. This is an attempt to reverse the 2016 election.

This is absurd. This is a constitutional crisis in which a president is acting as an outlaw.

WATTERS: An outlaw, wow. Give him a lasso.

JEDEDIAH BILA, CO-HOST: I love when Democrats say, oh, he wants to break the foundation of government, but then when you call for Nancy Pelosi to actually take a vote and have them be held accountable it’s like, oh, you guys get mire down in procedure. You can’t selectively care about appropriate procedure. What they have come out and said, the White House is — we want a vote to be held. We want those Democrats and Republicans who support impeachment to be held accountable for that decision. This is a serious matter, they’re agreeing. They want the full transcript of that Volker deposition. And they’re saying if you’re going to do this you have to do it properly.

Now, I get that Joe Biden needs this really badly to be a headline. He needs the top of everybody’s page when they (INAUDIBLE), impeachment, impeachment, impeachment because he doesn’t want you talking about the economy. He doesn’t want you talking about border security. He doesn’t want any of the accomplishments that this president has put forward to be highlighted. He doesn’t want it highlighted that he really hasn’t set forth an agenda, and most Democrats can’t even name what positive things he would do if he actually got elected.

So he needs this story badly. Unfortunately for him, he’s on tape doing the exact quid pro quo stuff that he is blaming President Trump for doing.

So you know what? Hold the impeachment hearing and let Biden and his son testify.

WATTERS: And then, politically, I think it was a great tactic to say, you know, shove it, Democrats, because let’s go to court. If you guys want to abuse your authority as a legislative branch, the executive branch can say, you know what, I’ll see you in court. Just drag it out past the new year and it totally erodes any attention the Democrats are going to get that are running for president.

PERINO: And that’s why, I think, there’s not a constitutional crisis because there is still a system in place and everybody gets to use the system.

WATTERS: Right.

PERINO: Remember, we’ve been hearing constitutional crisis since before the election even took place. So, that wears a little bit thin. And President Trump relishes the fight so much that he just wears down his opponents. The thing for Biden, and he finally came out today with a little bit more forceful, but he’s not a pure messenger on this. And he doesn’t really have a spokesperson who is able to do it for him.

So, there’s no — like he is the vice president, right? If you think back to when Obama was going after George W. Bush about torture for all those times. Who came out and defended? It was Dick Cheney, right? That was the proper place for Dick Cheney to be — to be able to defend. Vice President Biden was the vice president, also he’s now the father of somebody who was accuse — well, there’s allegations and there’s — I didn’t know $166,000 a month, that is —

(CROSSTALK)

PERINO: But he doesn’t have an effective messenger outside of himself, right? There’s no echo chamber. And the other 2020 Democrats now they’re all say they’re for impeachment, but nobody is really defending the actual allegations. So, I don’t know if he needs somebody — dare I say this, he need his own Rudy.

WATTERS: Oh, everybody needs a Rudy. And he’s actually mad at the DNC for not coming to his defense hard enough. Greg, let’s listen to Donald Trump’s new sound on Joe Biden, you can react.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: So Biden is dropping like a rock. I don’t think he’s going to make it. I didn’t think he was going to make it for a long time. I don’t think he’s going to make it. And, I guess, this is one way he can do it. You know, he didn’t say that until right now, and he sees what’s happening to him. I guess he’s no longer the front runner. He’s been hit and he’s been caught red-handed.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WATTERS: Greg?

GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST: Well, you know, I don’t believe this is about actual impeachment, right? What they’re trying to do is create a quagmire process, OK? So that they can warp public opinion which they’re doing, so that they can shake the confidence of Republicans who support the president, which is happening, I think. And handicap him with a hole, big, giant cloud headed for 2020. The reason why they’re doing this is not — it’s because they hate him. Because — do this little — do this little experiment, I wrote this stuff down almost with a swear word.

Imagine a Democratic president doing this in three years, ushering in prison reform, Democratic president, drawing down wars because he’s stingy about blood and treasure, ushering in record employment for women and minorities, growing medium household income 8.3 percent to a record $66,000, placing restrictions on China for suppressing Muslims. That sounds like the greatest Democratic president in history, definitely better than Obama. He just happens to be a Republican. And he just happens to be Donald Trump.

So it’s all about how much they hate the guy because they should be embracing his policies. I’m amazed how many Democrats are upset about this siring decision when, basically, it’s always been about American troops first. Making sure they’re safe, not risking blood and treasure. So the thing is for me is like — it drives me crazy that we take this story seriously. I’m not just a Fox host, Dana. I’m a Fox viewer, OK?

You know the guy at the hair club? I just don’t — I’m not just president, I’m a client. Well, I’m a Fox News client, so it drives me nuts that we take seriously this narrative, this conjoint narrative from the Democrats and the media. CNN, the New York Times, the Washington Post, they must be laughing their asses off when we dance to their tune. This is such a joke.

It’s such a joke. It’s all design to win an election. That’s all it is.

WILLIAMS: Let me just say, though.

GUTFELD: Don’t you agree the greatest Democratic president ever, Donald Trump.

WILLIAMS: He switched parties again?

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: Look, we don’t know. He’s like —

(CROSSTALK)

GUTFELD: You can’t deny anything I’ve said.

WILLIAMS: Yes, I can.

GUTFELD: What, like, prison reform, the economy, unemployment, leaving Syria?

WILLIAMS: — people at the manufacturing sector. What about those coal miners? Now, but let me just say —

GUTFELD: What about the coal miners?

WATTERS: You don’t care about the coal miners, Juan. Hillary said we’re going to wipe you out.

WILLIAMS: Oh, stop. Here’s the thing —

GUTFELD: He’s a threat to you. He’s a threat to the media. He’s a threat to the Democrats. He’s the richest skunk in the garden party and no one knows how to get him out of there.

WILLIAMS: But you are a Fox viewer, you say.

GUTFELD: Yes. And I throw the shoe at Fox at times.

WILLIAMS: Is that right?

GUTFELD: Yes, only when you’re talking.

(LAUGHTER)

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: Judge Napolitano say you can’t say to people ignore what you can see for yourself with your own eyes —

GUTFELD: Exactly like the transcript.

WILLIAMS: — here’s a president who release letter said, basically, I was using American military aid to extort a foreign country —

GUTFELD: You just pulled a Schiff.

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: In other words, this is what people who work at Fox are saying.

WATTERS: Juan, it’s a difference of opinion —

(CROSSTALK)

WATTERS: — so much partisanship around impeachment. Elizabeth Warren capitalizing off of her latest lie. Greg is gonna break it all down for us next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GUTFELD: You know Liz Warren? She’s the former Native-American princess who gave up truth telling to cash in on telling more lies. In her latest fund-raising email she brings up how she was visibly pregnant when, quote, the president told her the job would go to someone else. It’s another story in which she portrays herself as the oppressed, faking victimhood to get an edge over others, including real victims. However, her pregnant victim story fell apart when school board records obtained by the Free Beacon shows the school offered her a new contract. She quit anyway.

Backing up the tale she told back in 2007 when she said she left by choice.

Of course, all politicians lied. Those who say they don’t are lying.

Warren’s lies, however, fit a pattern. It’s victim karaoke. An opportunistic deception to exploit the plight of others. It’s no different than parking in a handicapped space and faking a limp, Jesse. It’s fraud.

Now, Liz claims her Native-American roost was an honest mistake, but it got her P.R. as the first minority woman in Harvard law which was so heavily promoted by her and by Harvard.

But when she knew that scheme was imploding she paraded that pathetic DNA test proclaiming her Native-American blood, but a toaster had more. That wasn’t an honest mistake. So as Biden gets hit by a Ukraine boomerang, she’s now the front runner. Will this new lie cause her in 2020? Perhaps.

But if she losses, she can just lie again and say that she won. I mean, whoever did that before, right, Hillary? So, Dana —

PERINO: Yes.

GUTFELD: — I noticed, and you notice, that the media are signaling support for Liz throughout this. Playing it down. The focusing on conservatives pouncing on her.

PERINO: They’re pouncing on the fact that they’re like — and actually, I don’t — it’s pretty interesting to me to talk about — as a viewer —

GUTFELD: Yes.

PERINO: I don’t think that this new thing about the contradictions in her story from 2007 and 2019 was put forward by a conservative. I truly believe that was opposition research put out by one of the other 2020 Democrats. And yet — then the media say the conservatives are pouncing on it. I think they should trace that back and find out who really did it.

Now, her defenses are going to work with the primary voters, right? You’ve got women that are talking — like they can identify with somebody being fired because I got pregnant, even if it’s not true. So in the New York Times, in that article, it wasn’t until the 16th paragraph that they say, oh, actually, there was a contradiction and there were these documents.

So, I think she won’t really feel the pain of all of this until the fall of 2020 if she does become the nominee. Because then, remember, it will be about character questions, and then everybody will have a chance to decide.

So she’ll probably pay for it later.

GUTFELD: Juan, Trump will eat this up if she becomes the nominee, right?

This pattern of pretending to be a victim?

WILLIAMS: Well, if he want to present it as that. I mean, Dana and I disagree about where this comes from. I don’t think liberals are exactly leaking information to the Free Beacon. But —

PERINO: No, no, no, the original story did not come from the Free Beacon.

WILLIAMS: I did. Yes, it was. Anyway, let it go. Anyway, but I think — I mean, to me, she’s been under attack for a while now. Remember that story about she had an affair with a 24-year-old marine? And that story —

PERINO: Well, I missed that one.

WILLIAMS: Me, too. Yeah, because it was bogus, and I’m glad you missed it. But I mean — and now —

GUTFELD: You just brought it up.

WILLIAMS: Because it was another bogus story —

(CROSSTALK)

GUTFELD: Did we ever cover it?

WILLIAMS: I don’t know. It was all over the papers, I tell you that.

GUTFELD: It was all over the papers?

WILLIAMS: Yeah, it was all over the papers —

PERINO: I read every paper.

(CROSSTALK)

GUTFELD: Research, I’m looking it up right now.

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: Wait, but I will say this. I am surprised that people don’t say, hey, what was the context of this, because they say everything is premise here, on the school board saying we will renew you for the next year, right, without realizing that we have teachers saying to the reporters all over the country, oh, yeah, that was the policy, but if you could hide your pregnancy, then they wouldn’t know. They would renew you.

And then once you became pregnant then they would say, hey, we got to hire someone else.

PERINO: But why on 2007 if she’s on tape doing an interview saying that she made the decision on her own? It’s her own words.

GUTFELD: If only we had a pregnant woman here to discuss this.

(LAUGHTER)

BILA: Yeah, I mean, she’s lying.

(CROSSTALK)

GUTFELD: He’s identifying as a pregnant woman.

BILA: We both pointed to Jesse.

(LAUGHTER)

BILA: Well, listen, she’s a liar and she’s a good liar. She’s a really good liar. I think she has an incredible gift that she’s able to deceive and still be popular. Hillary Clinton does not have that gift. I think when she lied about her email and she lied repeatedly, people held her accountable for that. I don’t know if that will wind up with Warren. I think it’s still remains to be seen. But I think it’s pretty clear. I mean, what Dana is saying is 100 percent true.

In 2007, you’re telling one story, and then all of a sudden now since 2017 you’re out on the campaign trail, you want to be popular, you cultivate this story. I think we should talk to the leadership of the school at the time. I think we should get to the bottom of the story. But the thing is, I don’t know it matters because when — when that whole thing with her heritage, that was pure deceit. She goes and takes this DNA test. She gets backlash from the Cherokee community.

She, obviously, lied — I mean, 1024th district. That was ridiculous. And she’s still rising in the polls. So, I don’t know if it’s just Democrats and the base don’t have anywhere else to go because Joe Biden is so disappointing that they don’t care.

GUTFELD: All right, Jesse.

WATTERS: Well, I want to hear more about this love affair with a marine.

I mean, how did I miss that?

(CROSSTALK)

WATTERS: I think the point is that she lies about crowd size. She lies about core components of who she is, her race and her baby. So those are a little more significant than a little embellishment. The other thing is, there’s many more politicians that have much more to overcome besides Liz Warren. Liz Warren had it pretty good. Middle-class girl, great education, her first husband worked for IBM. She has a $1 million in the bank, plus. She used to be a Republican, and now she’s sitting pretty as a U.S. senate.

So as you said, she feels a little inadequate, maybe it’s white guilt, or insecurity about — maybe she didn’t have to struggle that other people did, and she needs to — like you said, sing that victim karaoke a little bit louder to get ahead.

PERINO: And if the Free Beacon broke that, I will. Check it out, but I think that they went to the school — they went and looked at the actual records.

GUTFELD: Yeah, I am. I will say this, this show is pregnant with thoughts.

(LAUGHTER)

BILA: Well done.

GUTFELD: Thank you. You’re commenting for two now.

BILA: I am.

GUTFELD: Is Hillary Clinton ready for a rematch? Here’s what she’s saying about it, and taking on Trump in 2020.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PERINO: Is Hillary Clinton itching for a rematch? President Trump attacking Clinton on twitter over her emails, and taunting her to enter the 2020 race. Clinton firing right back saying don’t tempt me, do your job.

But, Hillary is just joking, right? Well, maybe not. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY CLINTON, FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: You know, it’s truly is remarkable how obsessed he remains with me. Nothing has been more examined and looked at than my emails. We all know that. So he’s either lying or delusional or both. Maybe there does need to be a rematch. I mean, obviously, I can beat him again.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PERINO: All right, Greg, here we go again?

GUTFELD: I can beat him again. I mean, that’s not an obsession, that is a delusion that one holds to keep out the reality. And I don’t blame her. I mean, she’s probably had to say these kinds of things being married to a man who’s vetted more women than my pillow.

(LAUGHTER)

GUTFELD: By the way, you know, she’s not immune to this Ukraine’s stuff.

If she enters this picture that’s going to stain her as well.

PERINO: What do you think about — do you think that she just does it — she’s on a book tour, so it doesn’t hurt to have a little —

WATTERS: Sure.

PERINO: — attention.

WATTERS: She’s like a celebrity stalker. You know, you’re going to find her outside the White House at night telling the secret service, if you just let in, I can talk to him. He wants to talk to me. But, I think, right now, she’s still going back to the emails and says everything was examined, except for the 33,000 that she acid washed. Can you imagine if Schiff subpoenas Trump for one of his email, just one, and he acid washes just one, and then says it was about golf. Could you imagine what the reaction would be? And she did that to 33,000, it’s a huge, huge double standard.

And lastly, if she does get in, here’s what she’s looking at. She’s looking at Joe who looks like toast right now. She’s looking at Bernie who has now to coast because of his health. Her only opponent is Liz Warren.

And she’s got to say to herself, guys, look at this, I beat Trump in the popular vote. I’ve outraised him. I out debated him. I can beat him again if I just go to Wisconsin, and I promise I will put Liz Warren on the ticket and I will put Bernie in the cabinet. Let’s have a rematch. And that’s convincing to some Democrats.

PERINO: I don’t know. Juan, we have a second topic we want to get to. So we’ll just get a quick hit on this one from you.

WILLIAMS: Well, I think this is a wonderful GOP fantasy. She’s the whipping — how long has she been demonized by Republicans? So she makes a silly comment, you know, again, I think to gin up publicity —

GUTFELD: At least she didn’t call anybody deplorable.

BILA: Demonized for her own wrongdoing.

(CROSSTALK)

BILA: She lied repeatedly.

WILLIAMS: I don’t buy it. I mean, to me, Trump is obsessed with her because she beat him in the popular vote. He’s always saying —

GUTFELD: He’s in the oval office.

PERINO: He’s in the White House.

WILLIAMS: No, he’s upset with the popular vote. That’s why he says, oh, no, my voters they were illegal alien voters —

PERINO: If she had beaten him, she would be in the oval office.

(CROSSTALK)

PERINO: OK, the second topic. Susan Rice is calling out Hillary Clinton and the Obama administration for making her push untrue talking points after the Benghazi attack. Do you remember this?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It began spontaneously in Benghazi, was, in fact, initially, a spontaneous reaction.

What sparked the recent violence was the airing on the internet of a very hateful, very offensive video.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PERINO: In a new book, Rice recalls a conversation she had with her mom about Clinton, quote, why do you have to go on the show? Where’s Hillary?

Well, I think that Hillary is wipe after a brutal week, I said. She was unrelenting. I smell a rat. This is not a good idea. Can’t you get out of it? Hillary was nowhere to be seen and we all — we talk about this a lot. We always wonder what happened? Why did Susan Rice have to go out and say that?

GUTFELD: Yeah, I remember as if it was like four years ago. Five years ago. But the thing — it brings up a comparison that I’ve said before.

There’re so many people back then that were laughing about Benghazi who are wetting their pants over the Ukrainian phone call. There’s no comparison.

Four Americans died.

PERINO: Very good point. We’ve talked about it — four years ago.

WATTERS: Four years ago. I was out on the streets, Dana.

(CROSSTALK)

WATTERS: I was saying, what do you think about Benghazi? And they used to say, who’s Mr. Ghazi?

PERINO: Who’s Mr. Ghazi —

WATTERS: And they had no idea.

(CROSSTALK)

WATTERS: No, she was the patsy and they left her holding the bag and they had to cover up for the fact that there was a terror attack two months before the election after they’d campaigned on defeating al-Qaeda. And the truth was is that the administration didn’t protect their ambassador on the anniversary of 9/11 in a country they had just toppled after a year of security requests.

So, they blamed a video guy, when it was actually their fault. And we still don’t know what really happened because they – did they fight some subpoenas? I think they fought a few subpoenas back then.

WILLIAMS: You know this is incredible. Imagine, I don’t think there have been any investigations. I don’t think anybody had to go to the Capitol Hill and testify. I don’t think Republicans wore this out. And Jesse still doesn’t know?

PERINO: But it’s pretty interesting, Juan, and I was just going to Jedediah since it’s her time. You know all these years later, now Susan Rice is basically saying, I took the fall for Hillary Clinton.

BILA: Yes.

PERINO: On the day that Hillary Clinton puts a little chum in the water about running in 2020.

BILA: Right. And I mean in there she’s saying, I don’t think Hillary set me up, although my mom did.

PERINO: Right. Listen to your mom.

BILA: But obviously, yes, they put her out there front and center. She didn’t have the right story and it really derailed our whole career. I mean any aspiration she had from that point on, she was – it was destroyed. She was completely destroyed in the media yet universally pretty much on both sides at one point.

And Hillary Clinton had to do it, because she didn’t want to take the fall for that, she had already been perceived as a liar. I know you don’t think so. But on many issues including her e-mails and it would have been – that would have been over for her. So, they said, who could we throw out there. Hillary is busy getting a mani-pedi, can you go out there and you know do this for her.

PERINO: She was exhausted after a brutal way out. Disgraced NBC star Matt Lauer firing back against a shocking rape allegation made by a co-worker. We have the details and his response, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WILLIAMS: A disturbing new allegation against disgraced TV host Matt Lauer. A new book accusing him of raping a co-worker during the 2014 Sochi Olympics. Lauer now hitting back against the accusation. Trace Gallagher has the latest trace.

TRACE GALLAGHER, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: And Juan, we have not seen the copy of the book but in it, Author Ronan Farrow who is reporting on Harvey Weinstein helped start the MeToo movement offers a firsthand account from Matt Lauer’s alleged accuser, the woman who Fox News is not naming, also work for NBC and says that in the 2014 or in 2014 during the Sochi Olympics, she met Matt Lauer in the hotel bar with Meredith Vieira and later went to his room.

She alleges the former NBC host kissed her, turned her over and though she repeatedly said she did not want to partake, claims Lauer proceeded to sodomized her while she cried into a pillow.

Matt Lauer is now defending himself saying he will no longer provide his accusers shelter with his silence saying, “she claims our first encounter was an assault, yet she actively participated in arranging future meetings and met me at my apartment on multiple occasions to continue the affair.” She says, I was the one pursuing the relationship. Yet once it was over, she was the one calling me asking to rekindle it.

And the alleged victim does acknowledge in the book that she had more sexual encounters with Lauer once they were back in New York. Meantime NBC News is standing by the accuser quoting here, Matt Lauer’s conduct was appalling, horrific and reprehensible. As we said at the time and here’s Lauer’s former co-host Savannah Guthrie. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SAVANNAH GUTHRIE, NBC HOST: This is shocking and appalling and I honestly don’t even know what to say about it. And it’s just very painful for all of us at NBC and who are at The Today Show.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GALLAGHER: You also have to go back and remember that Ronan Farrow also claimed NBC executives tried to kill his story on Harvey Weinstein and others say, Weinstein contacted NBC execs to influence the reporting. Juan.

WILLIAMS: Trace, thank you so much. Dana, the denial that we just saw from Matt Lauer, that was pretty adamant, pretty aggressive. But he hadn’t issued anything like that before now, why do you think he’s doing it now?

PERINO: Well, he talked about that actually. And it’s from a communications standpoint. I think that’s – it’s interesting in terms of the strategy. He said that he did not say anything. He thought that was the best course of action, but he regrets that, and he wishes that at the time that he would have said something at the time of his firing that he should have said something.

He said he’s lost all the credibility with his family, that all of this is playing on public. He has – everything has been taken from him. He’s been in hiding now. At the same time, there is a woman who worked with him, who obviously, if this is all true, went through something quite horrible. But it is curious and concerning that the relationship went on.

What NBC is saying is that as soon as they found out about it, they fired Lauer within 24 hours. So, for the company is saying, we did the right thing. She thinks she did the right thing and talking to Ronan Farrow for this book and he’ll be doing some interviews tomorrow, so maybe we’ll find out more. But then this whole piece about Matt Lauer finally deciding to defend himself, I think he probably has to ask himself if it is too little too late and if it will actually pass muster as this interview with Ronan Farrow will get underway tomorrow.

WILLIAMS: Greg, he says that when he was fired by NBC, nobody ever mentioned the word rape. And I wonder if now you know watching The Today Show host, you think to yourself is the media convicting Matt Lauer?

GUTFELD: Well, I think at this point when you get that word out there, he – he’s got nothing left to lose. His career is over. And when you’re accused of rape, and you believe you’re innocent, you’re sure as hell going to fight.

I think one of the probably the biggest story out of this is did NBC you know spike the – want to spike the Harvey Weinstein story to protect NBC and the issues that they were sure to come. I believe there is a mutually assured destruction for pigs, right. NBC will tell, we don’t go after Weinstein and then Weinstein will bring up what’s going on at NBC. So that guarantees protection for people and I wonder if Harvey. the Harvey’s of the world, the Bill Cosby’s of the worlds were able to enjoy their mayhem, because no one wanted to attempt the retaliation.

If I do a story on this person with this story – person do a story on me, it’s unlike nuclear war that you don’t have a first strike capability. They could strike back.

WILLIAMS: So, Jed, in fact you know Greg raises a really interesting point about is there some kind of one hand washes the other in terms of American media. The title of the book by Ronan Farrow is Catch and Kill, which refers to the practice of buying a story from someone who’s making an accusation and then killing it, so it doesn’t get out there do you. What do you think?

BILA: So, the question is was he fighting back against–

WILLIAMS: Yes, he says, he was mad at the leadership at NBC.

BILA: I mean I don’t know. I mean I’m sure he was very angry about that. I don’t know if that was part of his motivation. I think Savannah Guthrie’s reaction when talking about the allegations is the only one you can have, when you say I don’t know what to say because the allegations are horrific.

The fact that he was fired so quickly within that 24-hour period is interesting. I don’t know what kind of internal investigations went on at NBC. It’s always very challenging when these things happen because you don’t know why some people get fired immediately, some don’t. How you sort of research this to try to figure out how to potentially take somebody’s whole career and just destroy it based on an allegation. How do you go about proving an allegation?

There’s so many things that come into play and also you want to be so sensitive to the person coming forward with the allegations because that person may be telling the complete truth and may have suffered a very long time in fear of coming out against someone who is such a high profile figure.

So, the truth is oftentimes you don’t know what to say in situations like this. I do think people will be looking to this book and we’ll be reading this book very carefully because Ronan Farrow did start the MeToo movement and allowed a lot of people who were abused for a very long time to have the confidence and the power to come forward. So, I think it will be a pivotal book.

WILLIAMS: Jesse, there’s another bombshell in the book and it suggests that Hillary Clinton tried to squash the Harvey Weinstein story.

WATTERS: Well, the allegation was that she wouldn’t cooperate on one thing if he was going be pursuing that at NBC with Weinstein. And you don’t really know the truth of that, because there’s so many as Greg mentioned entanglements financially between all these people. He was a big donor to the Clinton’s. He was working with NBC on other projects. Hillary’s daughter Chelsea was hired by NBC for 600 larges for doing nothing.

So, and obviously NBC wanted Hillary to be President. It’s disgusting, the whole entanglement situation. You never going to know the truth and you’re never going to know the truth, what happened between those two. Well, we do know that she got seven figures after this from NBC, because clearly, she was not able to continue to work at NBC News after everybody knew who she was, it was a terrible environment.

WILLIAMS: Tough story. Stay right there, folks, because the Fastest 7 coming your way next on THE FIVE.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BILA: Welcome back. It is time for the Fastest 7. First up, socializing apparently gets a lot harder with age. A recent study says the average American hasn’t made a new friend in five years. And 45 percent of adults admit it’s hard to find new people to hang out with. So, Juan, what do you think. Do you think it’s hard to find friends as you get older, real quality friends?

WILLIAMS: I think it is harder, but you know what I was reminded of when I saw this was Alexis de Tocqueville who said you know Americans are great individuals, but you’ve got to worry that we don’t have enough of church. We don’t have enough of a social network in terms of social organizations, fraternities, ways that we can come together to mediate and he’s talking politics.

But you just think about relationships and I think it’s harder now in the age of social media to find the time and the effort, work takes up a lot of time. It’s harder to get out there and say, I’m just open to a new person. Especially for THE FIVE on this panel, that’s pretty tough.

BILA: See, I think Jesse though it’s by the time you hit your 30s, your 40s, you’ve been burned. You’ve been burned by some bad friends and you are hesitant to trust new people.

WATTERS: First of all, nice de Tocqueville drop, Juan. Greg is simmering over there; he didn’t think of that. I would say when you get older you stagnate. I think when you meet new friends it’s because you’ve moved into a new house, a new city. You’ve taken on new interests, gone to different places, maybe traveled. But if you live in the same house, same job, same everything your whole life, your circle grows smaller.

BILA: Dana, 42 percent say because it’s – because they’re shy.

PERINO: Right. You have to make an effort and you got to put yourself out there a little bit. Be willing to go to a little networking event. Actually, you can make friends at work.

BILA: That’s true. Right, guys. Greg, how many new friends have you made in the past year?

GUTFELD: Friends are overrated, we all know that. They’re a burden. Here’s a fact, OK, most murders are committed by people who know you. Fewer friends less likely to be murdered. If I show–

WATTERS: You sound like Dwight from The Office.

GUTFELD: If I show up dead.

BILA: He does.

GUTFELD: Go to Dana’s house, you will find the murder weapon.

PERINO: You might actually.

GUTFELD: Probably a dog leash.

BILA: Oh! Man. All right. Next topic, more proof, you should go out and get a dog, it can help you live a lot longer. New research says owning a pooch could lower your risk of dying early by a whopping 24 percent. Now Dana, I know you–

PERINO: So, here’s the thing. If you want to have more friends, you should get a dog. First of all, the dog will be your best friend. And also, when you go to the dog park you will meet other people.

WATTERS: That’s true.

PERINO: Naturally. And then you become friends with them. It’s perfect, it’s a win-win.

BILA: Yes, I agree. And you’ve got a dog recently.

WATTERS: Yes. Sorry. I’m going to live forever.

BILA: Do you feel the less stressed having a dog around.

WATTERS: Yes, don’t I look less stressed.

BILA: You never look stressed.

WATTERS: I know I like to pet the puppy sometimes, it’s really a cute animal.

BILA: But do you feel like – do you feel like it’s helped your health, Jesse, honestly.

WATTERS: I do. I do. I’m getting a lot more exercise because I have to walk the goddamn thing constantly.

PERINO: Rookie, he didn’t mean it.

BILA: Rookie.

WATTERS: All day.

BILA: Really? Do you have a pet?

WILLIAMS: Not at the moment. No.

BILA: Do you agree with this though, because you know they send animals into hospitals all the time to help people.

WILLIAMS: I don’t think there’s any question. I mean dogs are very comforting and loving animals and I read recently, they have – one of the aspects of a dog’s personality is that it has the ability to convey affection.

BILA: Yes.

WILLIAMS: And so, I don’t think there is any question, that’s a good thing. By the way, do you know there’s only one President that hasn’t had a dog.

GUTFELD: Yes.

BILA: Oh! Here we go. Greg–

GUTFELD: Bring it back to Trump as always.

WILLIAMS: I didn’t say anything.

GUTFELD: At least you don’t have it on the brain. At least you’re not obsessed.

WATTERS: What?

BILA: Animals are great.

GUTFELD: Yes, they are. But I think it’s a chicken or egg kind of thing. Does having a dog make you healthier or you healthy people more able to care for a dog. My suggestion Galapagos turtle is that how you say it. No, because they outlive you. So, you don’t feel the grief of a dead animal and when you leave the house to the turtle it pisses off all your relatives.

WATTERS: Avoid grief, avoid friends.

GUTFELD: Yes.

BILA: Not easy to cuddle a turtle though, I’m just going to say.

GUTFELD: Oh, they’re great, they smell wonderful.

BILA: All right. And Americans weighing in on a fierce debate dividing the country when to start decorating for the holidays. 43 percent of people say it’s perfectly fine to trade in your Jack Landers (ph) for Christmas trees starting November 1. Greg, what do you think?

GUTFELD: All decorations are bad. Approximately 6000 people are injured by – when they’re decorating their house. 800 homes structures fire due to lights. 20 million people die a year. from Christmas decorations.

BILA: Wow.

GUTFELD: 20 million.

BILA: You are such a–

WATTERS: More than vaping.

GUTFELD: 20 million.

WILLIAMS: 20 million. Are you sure about that?

PERINO: I don’t do any decorations of my own. I’m surrounded by decorations everywhere which I love. I wish they’d keep it – wait till Thanksgiving, but I don’t have–

WATTERS: Thanksgiving after Halloween. I want to see pilgrims. I want to see maple leaves things like that.

BILA: I agree. Juan, real quick.

WILLIAMS: Well, I’m an old guy so I agree with Jesse, but I will say this, if it makes you happy, you know what’s that woman, the Japanese woman–

PERINO: Marie Kondo.

WILLIAMS: Yes. If it doesn’t bring you joy, throw it out. Well, if this brings you joy, do it.

BILA: Do it. All right. One More Thing is coming up next.

GUTFELD: Disgusting.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WATTERS: It’s time now for One More Thing. Juan.

WILLIAMS: Take a look at Simone Biles.

(VIDEO PLAYING)

WILLIAMS: That was a triple twisting double performed by Biles at the gymnastics world championships in Germany. Yesterday, she set a record by winning her 21st medal. Biles led the U.S. Women’s Gymnastics team to its fifth consecutive title. She is just two medals shy of holding the all-time record for men and women gymnast at the world event. And here’s what she told reporters. I feel like I never think of records. I just go out there and do what I can do, which is to compete for my country. Boy, does she ever make the USA proud.

BILA: I love her.

WATTERS: Can’t wait for the Olympics, is it this summer?

GUTFELD: She’s OK.

WATTERS: You do that every day and go to work.

GUTFELD: I did that stuff in high school. All right, my podcast is up. It’s with Ricky Cobb. He does the Twitter account super 70s sports, which is hilarious. So, just go to foxnewspodcast.com. Great interview. Now let’s do this. Animals Are Great.

You know caterpillars are here for a reason to turn into butterflies. So, otters can chase them. Look at this. It’s fantastic. We’re looking at these otters trying to get that butterfly. They’ll do whatever they can. They don’t even know what they’re going to do if they catch that butterfly. This is like the Democrats chasing Trump.

They think they can get him, but no, he just eludes these little otters like Democrats running around the ruts, pulling them into the ruts. I can watch this for hours and that is why, Animals Are Great.

WATTERS: All right, you guys want to see some unsolved mysteries.

GUTFELD: GD right.

WATTERS: All right. So, these are some bizarre lights that were flashing in the skyline out of the Outer Banks. Look at that. Is that a UFO, that looks like a UFO to me? Everybody thinks that’s a UFO. Look at that. What could that be? What could that be?

GUTFELD: Maybe it’s a sign of God who’s upset with your language.

WATTERS: Greg, I thought you were agnostic.

GUTFELD: Unless I get to rag on you, then I become religious.

PERINO: What kind of lights are they?

WATTERS: You converted for the jokes.

PERINO: What kind of lights are they?

WATTERS: What kind of lights are they, Dana?

PERINO: I don’t know?

WATTERS: Is it like a setup light.

PERINO: I’m trying to help you. How fat is she. Sorry. No, there’s no joke. Actually, I think they might be sitting for military, because there is a base near the island. We love to think it’s UFO. Also, Wednesdays with Watters, 7 PM.

GUTFELD: There is no joke.

WATTERS: Dana.

PERINO: I thought that we’re going to solve the mystery. OK. Chick-fil-A employee. I mean these are amazing employees. Chick-fil-A employees were voted America’s favorite cleanest, most polite. And now they’re showing, improving it. So, this is Seth. He’s a Chick-fil-A digital marketing director. He’s smiling in a storm drain. Why? Well, Shanna Hall from Stafford, Virginia was picking up her order and her phone fell into the drain. She panicked, she went inside looking for help and Seth came to the rescue saying, it’s a manhole for a reason and he climbed down into the hall, he got the phone and that is why, animals are great.

And there is a Fox Nation book club thing with I did with Rachel Campos- Duffy for her children’s book, Paloma Wants to be a Lady Freedom.

WATTERS: Wow. Manhole. Very sexist. Jedediah.

BILA: So, check out this photo. Its Pennsylvania squirrels hid more than 200 walnuts under an SUV hood. Basically, there was a burning smell. Chris (ph) told KDK TV that his wife called to tell him their car smelled it was burning and apparently you have very resource. I wish I could do that again.

WATTERS: All right. Set your DVRs. Never miss an episode of “The Five.” “Special Report” is up next.

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